Israel: The Storm Begins, Jerusalem is Under Siege
A couple of days ago I posted a message saying this would be the beginning of a new occupation, one that is now armed with sympathy from the U.S. and others who have seen the many pictures of the "anguish" that Israel had to go through and what they want us to think the HUGE sacrifice they made. Israel has just seized Palestinian land in the West Bank to link a Jewish Settlement in the occupied West Bank to Jerusalem. Officials say this step could isolate Palestinians from Jerusalem, from the Holy Mosque or Al-Quds. To all those who were naive enough think the Israelies had peace on their minds, welcome to reality. The Israelies have had their eye on destroying the mosque for a long time. And if they do, they will be setting themselves on a severe collision course with the Muslim world. And who might be left to cover Israel's back...you geussed it, Uncle Sam. This undoubtedly might be start something historical. I can see it now, Palestinians having to choose between the third holiest site in Islam and a state of their own, and the Muslims of the world stand watching. I hate to speak so apocalyptically, but this only happened an hour ago and I want to get in all my thoughts before anything further develops. I will keep you posted.
crazy times we live in...crazy times
crazy times we live in...crazy times
posted by Irvine Coyote at 12:46 PM
10 Comments:
This is going to be interesting. I do not trust the Israeli government at all. I keep thinking back to the attack on the USS Liberty.
God Bless America, God Save The Republic
I forgot to tell you I have updated Gas Prices In Your Area. I hope you will stop by to check it out.
God Bless America, God Save The Republic
I always get the feeling that they pursue a policy of infantile behavior especially in the American political arena and pursue a radically different much more iron fisted policy to those countries who see beyond he facade they put on. The scary thing is they are not at all responsible and believe they can have things their way much in the same way that the U.S. went into Iraq thinking it is un-challangeable. That ideology of military nonchalance could only have been imported from Israel and the mossad. I geuss theyre still stuck in 1967.
In fact the sticking point is Islam. Muslims cannot, but through apostasy or through a highly developed hypocritical misreading of the koran, seek true peace with any Jew,Christian, or polytheist (secularist). http://www.jihadwatch.org/ is a daily posting of current events and links to many sites concerning Islamic Jihad, which includes us regardless of our support for Isreal.
Actually that is where you are deeply mistaken my friend. Any true Muslim repsect the people of the book and is the first to practice religious tolerance. Muslims believe that if God gave human beings the choice of worship then who are other human beings to hinder this right.
Want evidence. Look at the historical precedence where Jewish culture flourished in the Muslim world namely in Spain and Southern france which were parts of the Muslim world and where many jews flocked to escape the oppression of Christian Europe. There Jews and Muslims lived side by side with equal rights. The head of Physicians for Saladin, the General who defeated the Crusaders was Maimonides, a Jew and many of the officials working in the Muslim governments of Spain Yemen and Iraq were Jewish. When Spain was taken during the reconquista by Catholic Europe. Muslims and Jews fled to Northern Africa together (origins of the Sephardic jews)
Tensions have only risen between the three faiths when the crusades, colonialism and imperialism and the Apartheid State of Israel was established.
Look Maccus, Islam is not at war with Judaism, it never has, it is at war with zionism (too see the difference please see my side links on this blog). It is also at war with Imperialism not Christianity. Both of these is at War with Islam. Some acts coming from the Muslim world maybe Islamic others may not be, they are afterall human with emotions that can overtake even their own sense of justice.
I advise myself and you to look into things with an open mind instead of listening to mere punditry. I am not asking you to read what the other side has to say, I am asking you to form your own side by objective research. Let me know what your thoughts are on what I have just written.
A notable apostate (was Muslim, isn't now)says
"The reason I am against Islam is not because it is a religion but because it is a political ideology of imperialism and domination in the guise of religion.
Because Islam does not follow the Golden Rule, it attracts violent people."
-Ali Sina
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sinaprologue.htm
I myself find what someone who has studied the quran and rejected it much more compelling than the standard misconceptions about what passed for tolerance in the middle ages. To brag that Jews fled slaughter into Muslim dhimmitude is analagous to jumping from the consuming fire to the frying pan.
Coptic Egypt is also struggling to understand this tolerance (dhimmitude) that they are shown.
"Copts want an end to forced conversion of Christian girls, who are kidnapped and raped by Muslim extremists. There are reports of police
protection given to the abductors."
http://www.copts.net/demands.asp
Is the Coptic church any agent of zionsm, colonialism, or iperialism?
And speakin of iperialism...
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
-Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)
from
http://www.thetruthproject.blogspot.com/
Maccus,
Thank you for taking the time to reply now here is mine.
1. I invite you once more to make up your mind for yourself.Why do I say this becuase all the sights you have mentioned are from propaganda groups. You are siting propaganda web sites and blogs. Let me tell why this is not effective. Becuase you and I can site different propaganda websites all day long for Islam and against it but that will never go anywhere in the way of our discourse. Please site authoritative sources, ones that both you and I trust. I can not give you a quote by various famous figures in history praising the peaceful nature and comprehensiveness of the Islamic faith and then expect you to take it seriously. All these ideas are processed by people who have come up with their own conclusions, regurgitate them for other people to internalize them as their own. And you sound like an intelligent fellow so why dont you do the objective research without previous biases then make your own decision.
2. On what basis do you call the history of Islamic tolerance misconceptions. Islamic tolerance is something that historians know and have documented very well. In fact, Muslims did not have forced conversions and did not force their faith upon anyone. Islam appealed to people because of the simplicity of its belief and lack of racial or ethnic bigotry that existed elsewhere. That is why it remains the fastes growing religion in America and the the world. Here is an objective source
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/muslims1.html.
If Islam attracts so may people in the West and elsewhere are then how is it that Islam attracts violent people.
3. The argument about coptics of Egypt is taken out of context. I know about the conflict very well. It is not as major problem as one might think, tensions will arise between people at some points, but that does not negate the millenium in which coptics and Muslims lived in peace. They are going through a phase and clerics on both sides are doing their best to end tensions. Progress has been made. Again, people are people on both sides and some extremists both that lay claim to Islam and coptic Christianity will always try and escalate matters.
4. Finally, sometimes (certainly not all the time) there is a difference between what Islam preaches and what some Muslims might do in the name of Islam. Among which is extremism and Islam is a faith of moderation. So I reccomend you read about Islam instead of judging a faith of 1.5 billion on the acts of miniscule numbers of extremists, secular Arab governments or orientalist pundits.
5. Read the Koran for yourself and read it in context. It is on the basis of the Quran that science, philosophy and the great civilization of Islam rose and fluorished while europe was stuck in the dark ages under the iron fist of the Catholic Church. The west owes alot of its basis of knowledge of science and civilization to the Muslim world. Lets not forget that a true war on terrorism was fought in the 11th century by Muslims against the Mongols in which Islam dealth the Mongols a deadly blow who would otherwise have found their way to the west and wrought havoc and destruction.
Let me know your thoughts and I do mean yours.
1. It is made. Islam throughout history has encouraged aggression. The supposed genesis of Islam's war with the west (which is the first crusade) was not until 1095. Before that Israel was taken from Jews by Romans, to be conquered by Persians in 614, and by 653 under Muslim rule. Islams conquest by the sword would continue throughout the many centuries leading up to 1095. Another I'm sure you'll call "propaganda site" provides a convenient timeline http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blchron_xian_crusades01.htm
2. Islamic tolerance is a misconception, in that it does not afford the tolerated with basic human rights. The tolerated peoples are as a camp dog, tolerated to circle for scraps, occasionally kicked so they might remember their dhimmi status. No forced conversions....surely you jest. Though it does have some precedence in fact that often the heavily taxed dhimmi's were not be encouraged nor even allowed to convert. That would be bad for the Islamic state's coffers.
Why should I presume that people in the West are not violent? Obviously Islam attracts a wide variety of people and Muslims are diverse in their willingness to live in peace with their neighbors. But Islam is consistent in the hate it encourages in its adherents, even if Muslims themselves resist the more inflammatory passages of the quran.
3. In what context is rape not deplorable? Why is this not a major problem? What rights were Copts afforded under the millennium of peace?
4. How about the life of a pedophile, caravan raider that posed as a prophet?
5. Islamic conquests and raids upon Europe do seem to have closely predated (ushered in?) the dark ages. What knowledge of science or civilization passed through Muslim hands that was not plunder from the West? The Mongol Arghun Khan (a Christian) seems to have found his way west to suggest alliance against Islam.
I don't actually feel that you intend to conceal the dark past of Islam from me but that you do not know it. In that sense I feel less compelled to continue in trying to share the evil I see in Islam. If you honestly don't see it then, that is a good thing. Your Islam may not be defined by violence, but across the globe Islam is defined by violence. I hope you cling to peace and love of mankind even if an attempt is made to recruit you to jihad.
Maccus,
1. You make a number of claims, give a brief account of history and then make another claim, no logic or sources to back it up, how do you expect me to understand your point.
2. In Islamic law, the non-Muslims live side by side with equal rights as Muslims except, the Muslim pays the zakat, and non-Muslim pays the jizyaa, both in accordance to how much they earn and that a Muslim obligated to serve in the army, whereas the non-Muslim is not obligated. They were also not allowed to try and convert others to their faith
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi#Status_of_Dhimmis
3. Rape is deplorable and IF it does take place then like I said criminals come from all sorts of backgrounds. Rape in Islam carries capital punishment. This millenia of peace, copts enjoyed the rights of dhimmis please see rights of dhimmis (above source)
4. I will not dignify this with an answer but will come back to this later on
5. Please see this article I found online which provides some insight
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/science/society/islamicscience.html
It is by etiquette of discourse alone that I now post this last reply. You see I enjoy our debate, you were respectful organized, but in the last post, you refer to the prophet of Islam with such slander and hate and I am sure you only know about him from what you heard of propaganda and not from historical records.
Irrespective of what you say about prophet Muhammad, he remains what history knows of his greatness and while your hatred and slander will not change that reality it hurts me more than if you would have slandered me. It is a shame that you are filled with blind hate and you alone have excluded yourself by your bigotry and hatred. This is the last of what I have to say to you unless you apologize for such remarks. Otherwise do not contact me or if you do not want to go unanswered.
With much disappointment
Irvine Coyote
4. Ayesha was 9 at the oldest, no apology.
5. Arghun was a buhdist, I apologise for this error.
I do not hate you. It was not my intent to slander you. I'll make no further nuissance here.
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